About Eli? As some of you know, Eli our doberman, has been having some major signs of arthritis. We got him from a doberman rescue last June and he was in pretty poor shape then. The lady at the rescue said that if we keep him till he passes away, they'll give us another dobe for free. I do not care about getting a free dobe. The only thing I care about is my dobe. He's been really creaky and you can just hear his bones cracking everytime he moves. This morning he tried to get up off the couch and I was still in bed and I heard him let out a huge cry. Not just a moan or whine as usual, but a cry. He's in such bad shape and I feel that to prolong his life, even with meds, would be somewhat cruel. I would like some opinions on this issue as it is very hard for me to deal with. My hubby agrees he doesn't want to see him suffer, as he had a dog once that was in the same condition and the vet's meds didn't help all of it and he ended up suffering in the end. They really regret letting him go so long, but how long is too long?? And am I just giving up too soon?? I did go to the vet yesterday after I had called them about what's been happening and they had some Deramaxx for me. 5 pills, just as a trial as some dobes can be sensitive to it and they told me to give him 1/2 a pill a day to start out with. Well, those pills are $1.55 apiece and, as some of you know, we're moving sometime in the near future (pending the sale of our home), to a house that's twice the size and twice the cost of the one we are currently in. All the bedrooms and bathroom are on the 2nd floor so there's no way he could sleep with us or even be near us at night. It's tearing me up inside to see him like this. To see him struggle just to get up off the couch or to climb on it. To see him want to climb into bed with us at night, but know he will never be able to again. I know some of you have already made some suggestions to me in chat and I really appreciate it greatly but I just don't see that giving him baby aspirin is going to help much if these pills won't. I'm sorry this is so long, but thank you for reading it and any help or advice would be appreciated.
I would try the pills and see if it gives her any relief at all and then make a decision. If she is still miserable, I would not want her to live that way. If it pretty much clears it up, then I would have my answer...appr $24.00 per month if she can continue to take 1/2 pill a day, but it sounds like they are going to increase it..so would it be 1 pill per day which would be appr $46.00 per month... I could handle that. However, IMO, it depends on your financial situation and how good the pills help... this is a hard one. Not sure anyone can really answer it for you, but maybe we can help give you things to think about.
Very hard to decision- I don't know if you are a Christian or not, but why not pray about it?? I'm sorry you are going through this! :)
Thanks, jawlaw. I am a Christian and I have been praying for God to just let him go in his sleep. I know that it's kind of selfish but I don't want to have to take him to be put down. He is between 6 and 8, I think. The vet wasn't sure but thought he was between 5 and 7 when we got him 8 months ago. Alice at the dobe rescue emailed me and she was very supportive and didn't chastize us for thinking about putting him down. She said that with the money she spent on her dobe Boone during the last 2 months of her life, she could have had a nice trip to New Orleans. Booney had congestive heart failure though. I was so happy that she wasn't mad at us, but it also made it harder for me. I started bawling when I read her emails. I'll paste one here for you to read, if you want.
from:DRON95@aol.com
Savanna, you are going above and beyond what the average person would do for Eli. I was afraid of this when I read your first email about this problem. I am sending this on to Dr. Lee and asking her to let me know what she thinks. Meds are SO expensive. I know what I paid for Miss Boone for the last two months before we had to put he down Jan 11. I could have had a nice trip to New Orleans.
What did you do for dentristy? Just clean Eli's teeth or did you have to have some more pulled?
Remember when you took Eli, I told you we owe you another dog -f ree. I am so glad he had these months with you and your family.
If it were me I would give the meds a chance and see if they help him have a decent quality of life without the pain he is in.
If they don't help you can then give your final gift of love to him and help him to the Rainbow Bridge knowing that you have given him so much love & happiness these last 8 months.
If they do, and if financially you can handle it, I would continue medicating him. When you move to your new house you can fix up a really nice area for him to sleep downstairs. He can snuggle & get lovins all the rest of the time when you guys aren't upstairs sleeping.
It is so hard when our furpals start having such problems and wanting to be sure we are doing what is best for them. In your heart you will know when the time has come. Just know that we are here for you and will support you whatever decision you feel is best for Eli.
Thank you Denise. I feel better now that I have had the evening to just kind of forget about it at work. I got home tonite and let them all out and when I went to let them back in, Eli kind of fell, with his back legs first, and then his front half went down too. I had to help him back up so he could get in the door. That was really hard for me. Now the ppl at the dobe rescue want us to maybe bring him down there to see their vet. It's a 4 1/2 hour drive from here to there, plus the drive home. I just don't think it would be worth it to drive all the way down there to have them say the same thing we already know: take these expensive pills and they may help for a while, but just keep upping the doses as he gets worse. Not what we want to do. Why can't we go to our own vet?? Sorry to ramble. Just thinking again.
Why would they want you to drive all that way to see their vet? Do they just want a 2nd opinion? If so, I would just go to another one close to you. Can you imagine what it will be like to take the poor dog on that long of a trip. Not to mention the stress on you? Maybe I am missing something here...
This idea won't help with the big decision you have to make, but it may be helpful if the medication works fairly well. My mom has a basset with back trouble. He shouldn't jump on or off of furniture, but of course, he still wants to hang out on the couch.
My mom had one of the kids in the neighborhood build him a platform/step/deck contraption that now sits in front of the couch. The platform is about three feet wide, two and a half feet deep, and half as tall as the couch. When Nero wants to get on the couch, he can climb onto his platform and then onto the couch without hurting his back. The depth and width of the platform make it much easier to use than a regular step because he can easily get his entire body onto the platform and then navigate from there.
If you go the medication route, you may also be able to help Eli with some create carpentry. A platform won't get him to the second story of the new house, but it may help him get around on the ground floor.
I'm sorry you're stuck in such a difficult position. Sometimes it's hard to determine what course of action is really the best.
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"Thought is an invisible and subtle power that mocks all the efforts of tyranny." Alexis de Tocqueville
It will be hard, if you hate fish. Begin giving the dog pieces of canned mackerel. It is $1. a can. Give him a fish a day , or a fish every other day. A can can last you a week. It will give him both calcium, a natural pain killer, and vit a&d, essential for tissue regeneration and uptake of the calcium. Don't be lazy. I have seen miraculous results from simple products. Dogs have simple bodies. They don't absorb vitamins unless it is in the food...
Thank you, everyone for your suggestions. I gave him another 1/2 pill yesterday, and by mid-day, he was acting a lot better and getting up on his own. Makes me feel kinda dumb, I spent most of the afternoon crying about him. Our biggest thing is to not let him linger on, to keep him alive only for our benefit. When his quality of life is dwindling and we have to start giving him more pills everyday, then I think it will be time. I just got another email from Alice at the dobe rescue and the reason she wanted to know from a 2nd vet was 'cause she suspected that maybe Eli was handled a little too rough on the table at the vet's office here. She says these things just don't happen overnite and I replied by saying that it wasn't really overnite, that he started not wanting to jump onto the bed about 2 or 3 weeks b/4 we took him to get his teeth cleaned. I'm not being lazy, I am going to try giving him some cosiquin, if I can find any, and these Deramaxx pills and see how he does on those. We do build him a little "stairway" onto the couch, using our couch pillows in a pile in front of the couch. He seems to know that this is for him and uses it quite often. So we are trying. Alice also suggested we pack his legs in warm towels and have been doing that, as well. He woke up a little sore and whiney this morning (it could have been because he had to go outside) and I had to help him get his bottom up off his bed on the floor, but other than that, he's doing a little better. The pill doesn't seem to really kick in till about midday. So we'll see how he does today, and take it day by day from here. Thank you all for your kind words and help. It is greatly appreciated and keep em coming!!
I am so sorry for what you are going through. My sisters English Mastiff is getting bad. Robin started giving her two ascriptin(sp?) with her meal and it seems to help her some. Tess is just bad in the morning when she is getting out of bed, but throughout the day she seems to lossen up.
Glucosamine-chondroitant with MSM will help him. I give it to my dog. Its helped in the past few years. Time will tell when she has had enough, maybe another year or two. But I highly recomend it.
I just wanted you to know that I haven't intentionally ignored this thread. It brings tears to my eyes to read it because I can't imagine what you are going through. It sounds like you have gotten some good advice here and I wish there was more I could say to help you, but I honestly don't know what I would do until I was in that situation. My prayers are with you and Eli. Gods plan will unfold and it will be for the best, no matter what happens.
It makes my heart warm to know that a rescue/adopted animal got to spend their last days/months/years with a loving and caring person. No matter what happens, always remember that because of you Eli got to stare love in the face and not a needle.
Alice at the rescue called me last nite and said that she talked to the vet and the vet thinks that with what we've described, his time is running short. We are giving him his 1/2 pill everyday but only seems to help in the morning and afternoon. She does think we should give him a whole pill everyday, 1/2 in the am and 1/2 at nite. I called the vet and talked to the lady that gave me the pills and told me to only do 1/2 and she said that we should still only do the 1/2 till these run out (she only gave me 5 whole pills) since dobies are prone to reacting to this pill adversely. So I guess I am stuck between a rock and a hard place with that one. Alice said her vet is a small animal vet and since our vet does farm animals and small animals, this is why their opinions differ. Eli does get stiff toward late afternoon and evening so I don't know what to do with the pill situation. Either I believe what my vet says and just do 1/2 or I believe what someone else's vet says and give him a whole pill. I don't know what to do there. I said maybe I'll just switch him like on Sunday or something. Or give him a supplement instead of the other 1/2 pill so that I'm not going against what my vet says. In the meantime, Alice said we need to help Eli get up and onto the couch and stuff and try not to let him do it on his own. She said he'll never be able to walk up and down our stairs to the basement and he does have to walk down 5 steps to get outside but I guess that's ok. She thought we should try wrapping a towel under his hindquarters and grabbing on either side of it to lift him up off the floor and such, kinda like a sling. I thought it would work but I tried it last nite and he wouldn't budge. Guess I'm not strong enough to lift an 80lb dog. Alice said it's so hard for her to hear of this happening, since they fought so hard to get him from Garden City, KS to Omaha, NE to the rescue. And then it took them a while to find us, as well. I told her that Brad says we can't collect on that free dog they said they'd give us, 'cause he doesn't want a 3rd dog anymore, especially not a big one. She said that there's so many to rescue that we should really get one sooner than what I told her, a few years. I agreed and told her that I fought him tooth and nail to get Eli and I could probably do it again, it would just take me some time I usually get what I want with him. Thank you all for your support and kind words. I will keep you updated.
Will you be able to increase Eli's dosage after he finishes these five pills, assuming he doesn't have an adverse reaction to the medication? If dobes tend to have trouble with this medication, you're probably best to follow your vet's instructions.
Brad is going through the same heartbreak over Eli, so the idea of getting another dog who may also have Eli's problems may be a little overwhelming right now. Don't let the rescue director push you into anything for which your family isn't ready. When the time is right for another dog, you'll know.
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"Thought is an invisible and subtle power that mocks all the efforts of tyranny." Alexis de Tocqueville
Thanks, Proto. I talked to the vet tech today that sold me those pills and told her that Alice and her vet said to give him 1/2 in the morning and 1/4 in the evening and she said that would be all right. I also bought 20 more pills for him. Brad didn't like Eli to begin with. It took me a whole lot of convincing to get him to give in to me and my dobe obsession. I think it will take about 10x more than that to get him to let me get another one, as long as Mollie and Chopper are both still around. I'm not going to kill them or give them away just to get another dog.......hehehe,lol I would never get rid of one dog just to get another, so I guess I'm either just going to have to wait or do some really good persuasion techniques. I don't really like thinking of getting another dobe when Eli is still alive but it's only natural, I guess to want to save another dobe life after one passes on. But yeah, Brad is having a bit of a tough time going through this as well. He didn't even want to do the whole trying different pills thing. But I want to just so that I can say we gave him a chance for life without pain. We're also going to get some Osteoflex by Sundown, glucosamine/chondroitin complex for humans and hope that works. It's what Alice said to try as she gives it to her dobes too.
"Thought is an invisible and subtle power that mocks all the efforts of tyranny." Alexis de Tocqueville
I usually get what I want with him. Thank you all for your support and kind words. I will keep you updated.
