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Post Info TOPIC: E-Collars


Officially Housebroken! (But don't make me mad...I know which floors you wax)

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E-Collars


Anyone use e-collars (shock collars) for their dog?  Kula is doing great with is obedience training, but we really want to move him into some more off-leash training.  Problem with most training collars is that they have to be on the leash in order for you to correct the dog.  I'd like to be able to correct him without needing the leash.


Feel free to tell me both good and bad...I know nothing about these collars, so I really want to get as much good info as I can.


 


Thanks!



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Sorry- never used one before. Thought about it on my son though....lol :)

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Officially Housebroken! (But don't make me mad...I know which floors you wax)

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LOL! Yes, it would be handy for our human children wouldn't it?


 



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How long have you and Kula been working on obedience training?  I get the impression, and I could be totally wrong, that Kula isn't really ready for off-leash work, at least not anything at a distance.  Training is a process, not an event.  It takes a long time, but most people want to rush the process, sort of the equivalent of trying to teach a kid to write a research paper while he's still trying to master how to write a paragraph.


For most off-leash work, you actually begin with the dog on-leash.  For instance, if the dog heels well with a leash and training collar, you start leaving the leash draped around your neck while still attached to the dog or switch to a shoelace-type leash instead of a heavy training lead.  At some point you also switch from the training collar to a regular buckle collar, and after the dog can heel on a buckle collar with nothing stronger than a shoelace as a leash, then you finally try heeling without the leash.


I may be able to be more helpful if you can provide some details about Kula's training, but for now, my advice is not to rush because a dog who doesn't have a firm grasp on the basics won't be reliable off-leash.  And everything I've read about e-collars says that most people accidentally use them incorrectly and end up just confusing the dog instead of training him/her.


Denise does advanced obedience work with her dogs, so she should be able to give you some pointers as well.



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Protodog gave you some great advice and asked the same questions that came to my mind as well.  One additional question is how old is Kula as well as how did the on-lead training go and what are the problems in off-lead work?  What is Kula's temperment and personality like?  How quickly did he catch on to the commands on-lead and how reliable on-lead is he?  Also, please remind me what breed Kula is.


In my opinion e-collars aren't a training tool to be used as a first, or even second choice and they definitely aren't the choice for all dogs.  I have, however, seen them be a successful tool used on dogs that definitely know the commands and are just being stubborn and on the other hand I have witnessed a couple of dogs over the years who could have cared less!  There are also dogs that in my opinion an e-collar should never be used on.


With some more info I'm sure we can give you some tips that will help you along and if it comes to needing to try an e-collar some advice there as well.


 



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Denise a/ka Poodlesmom


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Kula will be 6 months old next week and he's a cockapoo.  On leash training has gone GREAT with him!  He is very bright, catches on very quickly, and knows all of his commands.  He knows EXACTLY what he is supposed to do, just chooses not to at times (especially when he's distracted).  If you put the training collar on him he follows all commands almost immediately and really needs very few corrections. We have been working on training with him since he was about 9 weeks old.  Kula is sweet, loving and very outgoing.  Fo the most part he's fairly calm and we've had few of the behavior problems most folks do with puppies.  He only occasionally will chew on something that doesn't belong to him, doesn't bark, he's gotten very aware of the need to use a soft mouth on living creatures, and housetraining is going great. He loves everyone and other dogs as well. 


We have been doing all of the things that you mentioned Protodog, and Kula is at the point that he will heel with a buckle collar, light nylon leash.  He will also heel off leash if he's in an environment where there are no distractions.


I guess what I'm looking for is something that I can have on him at home that's more immediate than a leash and training collar.  For example, I'd like to be able to give him an immediate correction if he goes to jump up on someone, but if I'm not right there, leash in hand, I can't.  And, honestly, I don't like for him to have the training collar and leash on ALL the time in the house...I'm afraid he'll get caught on something.


I hope I don't sound like I'm wanting him to be 100% perfect or that I'm completely anal about his obedience. I was just wondering if an e-collar might be a logical next step.  You guys are great to take the time to help me out!


Cathy


 



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Cathy you have done a great job with training and should give yourself a great big pat on the back!


Kula sounds as tho he has been a joy to train and he has done great.  Now you just need to continue his training, wait for more of his puppy traits to fade away, and concentrate on training on-lead with distractions while slowly introducing the off-lead work on those exercises he does consistently well on-lead with & w/o distractions.  I really wouldn't recommend an e-collar at this stage as he seems to be doing exceptionally well and I honestly don't think it is needed.


Now on to the problem with him jumping on people which you would like to stop.  Some more info please.  Is it when someone comes home or company comes, when he is playing with people, when he is looking for attention, or all of the above?  What methods have you used to try to discourage it and does everyone in the house use the same method consistently?  There are a few different methods and I'll try to help out.



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Denise a/ka Poodlesmom


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I agree with Denise.  You're doing an excellent job with him.  I'm sorry for jumping to conclusions up above.  Most people rush training, instead of doing it in baby steps like you are.


Now, I'm just waiting for details about the jumping...



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Officially Housebroken! (But don't make me mad...I know which floors you wax)

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I know I'm so spoiled!  He's such a great dog, I wish I had 10 more just like him.


No problem Protodog...I'm sure it DID dound like I wanted everything done yesterday.


As far as the jumping....it is the worst when someone comes home (especially me, because he's such a Momma's Boy!), but the other time he does it a lot when he plays with my 10 year old son.  I know he thinks Dev is just another puppy, but Kula is ALL over him.  Devin, of course, loves it unless Kula nips.  He will also jump sometimes when he's waiting for treats, but he responds right away to a NO and down-stay in that situation.


Correction wise, we tell him NO, push him down or meet him with a knee when we know it's coming, and if necessary, a small pop on the training collar.  We are very strict with him when people come over---I really don't want him to become one of those annoying jumpy, yappy dogs at the door.


He is making progress with the homecoming...he will sit and stay when he's told and then wait to be greeted (as still as an excited puppy can, anyway!).  I'm sure that you've hit the nail on the head when you say to wait for his puppy traits to go away.  He really is still a baby and has done so great up until now. 


I guess it would probably be best to just stick with what we're doing until we hit a bump in the road.


 



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I'll tell you I honestly think behavior-wise in the house one of the hardest things for pups to comprehend is the "no jumping" on people.  They just get so excited & overwhelmed when people come in, especially their own humans, it is just so difficult for them to contain themselves.


There are a few different ways to approach this.  One is keep coming in very low keyed, no greeting or pats until the pup is sitting.  Once in a sit then he can be given some pats.  When company comes before you open the door put him on his leash in a sit/stay and ask your guests to calmly come to him for a greeting.  If he pops up to jump have them walk away & go sit down, he goes back into a sit/stay.  After a couple of moments walk him over to them for a greeting and as long as all 4 feet stay on the ground it is a success.  If not another sit/stay.  He will eventually catch on that jumping means no attention which is what he really, really wants.  As smart as he is I am sure he will catch on quite quickly but it won't be 100% all the time.  Another method is if he jumps turn away from him without giving any acknowledgement or correction.  After a few times of this happening sometimes they will realize what they need to stop doing.


Another little trick (which works wonderful for me) is the infamous penny bottle.  Take a 20 oz. plastic soda bottle, put a few pennies in it and the cap on.  If he starts jumping and you aren't right next to him for a prompt correction you can pick up the bottle (you can have them strategically placed throughout the house so one is always readily available) and throw it at him (not to hit him but to land close by enough) to startle him while saying NO JUMP.  To this day, and my 2 are now 6 & 4, if they are doing anything I want them to stop & a verbal didn't accomplish that all I have to do is just pick up the bottle & give it a little shake & whatever they were doing stops instantly.  This works for jumping and barking if they are just so focused on what has their attention that I don't even exist - luckily that is now a rarity.


Kids & dogs just seem to go together don't they!  My 2 grandsons, who will be 9 & 7 in May, live here and they are best pals with the dogs.  And boys being boys, do encourage the dogs to jump when they are playing with them.  And I suppose that is just the nature of kids & dogs.  What I would have Devin do if Kula starts nipping during play is to give a really pronounced "OUCH" and immediately stop play for a few minutes.  Again, it is just a "puppy thing" but explain to Devin if he allows Kula to do it just once w/o giving him the ignoring treatment he'll be right back at square one.  Puppies & kids are alot alike in that if you let them get away with it once they will just assume it's AOK.  As you know, with both, consistency and alot of patience and love & retaining a great sense of humor, is what it gets them & us through it!



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Denise a/ka Poodlesmom


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Thank you so much Denise!  I will definitely try the things you mentioned.  You're right....he's just like a kid (luckily he doesn't have the attitude of my 6th grade daughter....I may just toss that bottle full of pennies her way once in awhile!)


Have a great weekend and thanks again! 



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Officially Housebroken! (But don't make me mad...I know which floors you wax)

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E-collars are a good for training AFTER they have learned the basics.  We have had a terrible time with Chloe' jumping when we come home.  I keep a spray bottle by the door and have it on the stream setting.  All it took was a couple times of spraying her with the water when we came home and telling her to stay off.  Now all I have to do is grab it and she sits nicely.  Then I make a big deal of her sitting and give her a treat.  So now she is getting to where she will sit and look at the treats till we give her one.  She is a 14 month old now...so it might take a while before Kula totally gets it. 


Another thing I do, is whenever Chloe' is doing her jumping  is to stand very still and not look at her...she will usually stop jumping cuz she can't figure out why I'm not moving...you have to figure out what will work for your dog and stick with it...



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The bottle (or can) of pennies works well, but it is not a good idea with a skittish dog.  Kula certainly sounds confident enough to handle it, but an already paranoid dog will become even more so if you start lobbing bottles of pennies at it.

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I use them once in a while to correct bad habits in adults. With a puppy

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