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Post Info TOPIC: "Normal" people deserve good dogs too!


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"Normal" people deserve good dogs too!


I showed my husband the thread of "I know you are sick of my puppy hunt but I have a question" and he got kind of upset. He read it and said, "so a "normal" person is not entitled to a purebred and WELL BRED dog?" and I have to agree with him. That is the message alot of breeders send out. For instance, when KM said she tells people to go to a shelter if they are the people who "just wanna dog". Now in some instances I agree but aren't people who want just a good housepet entitled to get a dog that is at least somewhat guaranteed against genetic problems? Why are people sent to the shelter to find "just a dog". If you think that the people are just going to have, as KM, put it, a breathing floor rug, why is a shelter dog better then one that comes from a breeder? And only better if you are not "good enough" to own a "good" dog? I am all for people adopting at shelters but when you tell people to adopt from the shelter or rescue(which can be very hard at times depending on the shelter or rescue) then they are supposed to go find a good breeder but if they want just a pet, they are treated like they don't deserve a dog. I am sorry for ranting but it is an issue that doesn't make alot of sense to me.
So basically, if you are above all the "normal" people and show your dog(or do other AKC sanctioned events) then you can have a purebred, well bred dog, but if you are a "normal" person who wants a friend and companion and just to have a dog in the house. Then you can pretty much just have everyone else's throw away dogs. (No offense to shelter dogs, I love them) If a person is not good enough to own one of their "better" dogs then why is it okay to send a sweet shelter dog to live the life of a "breathing carpet"?
I just think some breeders need to get off their high horses and quit thinking their dogs are better and more deserving of a good home then a shelter dog.

Sorry for ranting but my husband asked me to post about this.

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RE: "Normal" people deserve good dogs too!


I think it pretty much comes down to "you get what you pay for" although the phrase "buyer beware" comes to mind also.
Personally, if I did not have a dog that was the best I could possibly get, I would not be at all happy with it, and would rather not have one at all. This attitude has left me breeding my own dogs and only keeping the pick of the litters for myself, for generations.
Not sure if that is a high horse, but if it is, I am comfy on it.
My thought is that people should get a dog that suits their every desire. If you have low expectations, then you will be satisfied with less. This has always worked out for me, as a person just looking for a pet will usually not pick the better conformation dogs and goes by color or personality, leaving the genetically superior pups for the more decerning buyer down the road.
In a perfect world, ALL BREEDERS would be responsibly breeding genetically clean stock, and giving iron clad guarantees as to the future health of the dog. In a perfect world, gene pools could be manipulated beyond that of merely increasing the odds in your favor by good breeding of sound stock, and bad genes would be detectable, and dogs possessing them would be eliminated from the gene pool.
Just in case we live in the real world, puppy buyers need to educate themselves, and buy responsibly, giving themselves the best possible chance at getting a healthy puppy.
Other than that, pray...I personally consider even pups of the best linage, a shooting match for genetic perfection. A lot of getting a healthy dog is just luck. The rest is research...

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"This has always worked out for me, as a person just looking for a pet will usually not pick the better conformation dogs and goes by color or personality, leaving the genetically superior pups for the more decerning buyer down the road."

Personality in certain breeds is far more important then conformation. For instance in that of a pit bull or, like in my case a chow. If you breed for conformation over personality, you will ruin that breed.

"Personally, if I did not have a dog that was the best I could possibly get, I would not be at all happy with it, and would rather not have one at all. "
Partly why some many pets are in the shelter I suppose. Many "inferior" dogs are absolutely the best in the world.

"Just in case we live in the real world, puppy buyers need to educate themselves, and buy responsibly, giving themselves the best possible chance at getting a healthy puppy."
How are puppy buyers to be educated when breeders do nothing more then tell them to go to the shelter? Rather then educating them, you are basically pushing them away from ever buying from a breeder again. Reccomending a shelter is always fine. But I personally believe that ALL breeders should be involved with rescues of their own breed for all of those people who do want to rescue but would like a specific breed. Hanging up on people or telling them to go somewhere else is not much for education and you and others as breeders who hold education as a standard should hold the responsiblity of helping with that education.


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Well, you would make a fine dog breeder and educator, Katz, go for it...
Me, I'm tired of talking to fools...

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It really is a big circle, without people teaching and educating, no one is really ever going to learn and so, honestly they are not ever going to go away. It is a matter of whether or not you want to take the time to help people learn because without it they are not going to go away, another will just take his place. But maybe you can send one person away just a tiny bit more knowledgable.
That is what I do with the Chow breed. People are so quick to say how bad and mean they are but most people know nothing about chows. I get soooooo sick and tired of hearing how bad they are but yet I refuse to continue to let people just go on thinking that way without hearing my side. That is a big part of my wanting this puppy, I want to try and get people to see that not all chows are bad and that with proper training and socializing they can make wonderful pets. I get sick and tired of talking to people who think they know everything about them, if they did, they wouldn't think that way! We both have to deal with people who are uneducated just in different parts of the dog world but I feel the responsibility to change the breed that I loves reputation. Only with education will that change. I also do the same for pit bulls.


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I understand what Kitty's saying. It's not that someone who is strictly a pet owner doesn't deserve a good dog, it's just that why would they want to pay for a show quality dog that they are not going to show or breed, just so that it can play frisbee with them and go on walks and snuggle on the couch? Only thing I can think of is bragging rights, maybe? My dog with his "splayed toes," (a conformation fault) catches a ball and goes for walks with me just as well as a show quality dog would, so the only reason I (as a non-shower and NEVER breeder) would go to a breeder is if I just had way too much money and didn't know what to do with it. I pick a dog based on temperament and it's always nice if I find its appearance to be pleasant too. Now personally, I could care less if someone who wants a pet wants to get it from a breeder as long as it is not a byb. I cannot understand why they would, though.

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If you have ever seen a poorly bred purebred dog. You would understand why someone who wants a good purebred even as just a pet would go looking for a good breeder. I want a good chow puppy, hard to find by most shelters/rescues or bybs. Where else should I look.........A Good Breeder.

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I think the main problem here is that people don't know a thing about Chows. They have a lot of health and temperment issues. Finding a GOOD Chow Chow breeder is almost next to impossble it seems. Finding a pure bred Chow at a shelter? Yet to see one. Most of the time Chows fail the tests that a shelter would give. Not anyone can go out a buy a Chow bring it home and act like it's a Lab. They are a VERY protective breed, I would NEVER jump into a back yard with a Chow. It's hard to discribe the Chow breed sometimes.


I think that a lot of the comments made to Katz are uncalled for. Everyone has their reasons and I fully understand her's, knowing the breed. Getting a poorly bred Chow can be a danger to her family.



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Well, hopefully my comment wasn't considered uncalled for, because I wasn't being ugly to Katz. I was just speaking for myself.  I also would never pay $30 for a tee-shirt but some people do it and I imagine they wouldn't be offended because I never would. If she wants to buy from a good breeder (and breeder #2 from the other post seemed good from what she said) I certainly don't have any problem with it.


 I have seen poorly bred purebreds, but when choosing a dog I would not choose one that had a poor temperament. Maybe chows are harder to find in a shelter that are of proper temperament? It's pretty easy to find a big lovey pit bull from a rescue, but I know that the pit rescues are full to capacity; I don't know if chow rescues have as many to offer or not. We always went to the pound and got a sweet dog when I was growing up. If I were going to go the route of a rescue organization, I would want to talk with the foster family and see what kind of temperament was going on before adopting.



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NO shiny it's was to what you said.


Chows usually do fail temperment tests. They are a very reserved breed, and a one family dog. Re-homing a Chow is very hard. I have looked threw the Chow rescuse here in the South and it's usually Chow mix's. The pure bred Chows that they do have usually have to go to one dog families with no children and no cats.  Poorly bred Chows have temperment problems, they aren't like "normal" dogs and can be raised different. Chows normaly do not mix well with children of course there are Chows that live happiely with them. My hubby had 2 Chows and 2 children.



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everyone is entiteled to their breed of choice. i for one will NEVER have a chow again. we got bear for my son when he was 10. he was a very cute , loving puppy. somewhere along the line ,his personality changed. we didnt do anything different with him. he started snapping at my kid's friends and then it escalated into biting. they would be petting him and he would just "go off" and bite the heck out of them. one night we were all out relaxing on our porch, when he lunged at my daughters face. my husband caught him just before he reached her. she was only 6. we had to confine him ,but a kid came into the yard and bear attacked him. he was visciously attacking his face and neck. i got bit several times trying to get him to stop. luckily the kid recovered and we werent sued. if i hadnt been home, it could have been a tradgedy for that kid.he was treated very well . well socialized and followed my son everywhere. he even slept on his bed with him. we gave him to my cousin, a single guy, who he ended up attacking him . he was put down at the age of 2.  that is just my experience with the breed. my friend from work has 2 chows.her daughter and grandkids are living with her .she said they play with the grandkids, but have also bitten them too. so they have to constantly be there when they are together. maybe they are not all like that, but all the ones i have known are.

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As far as my comments, I am always talking about Labradors when I write.
My favorite dog is the Doberman, but I could never fathom their thoughts, and know little about the breed, so I stick to Labs.
I also know nothing about Chows, except that a vet has told me they are considered the most likely dog to bite, by vets [neato]. I like Martha's dogs but who knows how much expensive training went to make them that way. A dog that is a perfect angel with one owner could be a virtual hellion to another.
I think education is very important. I also realise I am not going to save the entire world on my own, so I stick to communicating with people that are more receptive and let knotheads go to the next teacher for their lessons. You may say I am not a patient person, other than that, some people just give me a headache. When you have bred and sold dogs for 30 years, you will know what I mean. The nice thing is for every 10 boneheads that I have to redirect to another breeder [oh, yes, I call the breeders for them, and find the kind of dog they want, exactly...at my own time and expense, with rarely a thank-you back], or talk out of getting a dog that they are getting for the wrong, although often well meaning reasons, etc. etc....there is that one person that really is who I am looking for, that exclaims when they see the dog that they have always wanted one just like it, that they have a name, toys, crate, containment and trainer all waiting for the dog [invariably, I prefer wealthy owners- but that is not part of my screening process] the dog is to be kept in the house, which they own, and they spend lots of spare time taking the dog for car rides, and loving them....they are not 1st time dog buyers, although that is ok, if they sound ready for a Lab [if they don't pass muster there, they won't be wasting our time puppy shopping at my house] their previous Labrador [or other large breed dog] died of old age... That one person makes talking to all the fools worth it.
I educate people along the way, but I hold out on selling just anyone a puppy. My grandma[ in her 90's] in a shrill annoyed voice, said"why don't you just sell the dogs to anyone that wants one and get your money? Why do you DO all that?" My calm reply was," because I CAN, Grandma, because they ARE MINE until I choose to sell them, and I want them to have a rich and happy life with someone that will cherish them and provide their every need, and truely appreciate what they are buying from me...the product of countless generations of intelligent, sound dogs that provide their owners with what they have been bred for for 100 years".

Oh and Katz, all my pups have correct temperament, with a couple rare exceptions that I did not sell, but kept into young adulthood and gave away, fully trained, to their lifetime owners that remain thrilled with them to this day [they were shy, err, but are quite out going, now] You need to not confuse choosing a dog for personality, for having a correct temperament. I only assume most breeds have both personality and temperament, Labradors are usually judged for temperament, but a judge can be swayed by a sunny personality as well

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RE: "Normal" people deserve good dogs too!


Oh, and I spent 5 hours this morning "educating" people on the LABRADOR forum that I belong to. You might say I pick where I spend my time, but you may NOT say [without being corrected] that I, or other breeders, do not educate people.
Check out:http://lab-retriever.net/board/forumdisplay.php?f=9
It is a very developed site with separate nutrition and training and health forums but we often hash stuff out in the general catagory. I am known as "Solid Image Labs" [my actual AKC kennel name].
I was talking [also in pm's] to a litter owner that had a pup they sold to an uneducated buyer.http://lab-retriever.net/board/showthread.php?t=53307 The discussion in pm's was offering any future help they need to help them educate their puppy buyers. I give about 20 pages of info to my buyers, along with a minimum one hour lecture
I also talked to an owner, handicapped, and recently badly injured by his Lab that, faced with a barking problem, was considering giving the dog up [got a little heat from the board for my unusual opinions].http://lab-retriever.net/board/showthread.php?t=53320
It is a fast moving board, 40 or more people an hour...heavily rescue oriented [the reason we went into pm's to discuss things, often people that breed dogs get heat from the rescue clan].

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