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Post Info TOPIC: Help needed re: Sep Anxiety~ training


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Help needed re: Sep Anxiety~ training


Im sorry its a long post but please stick with me on this as i really need some advice/help
Harvey has had bad seperation anxiety in the past which has got alot better although its still there. He was taking Serene-UM to relax him when he was at his worst but he hasn't been taking them for a while as he got alot, alot better.

I feel a complete **** as im gonna have to go back to work soon as we really need the extra income but im worried about Harvey and feel wrecked with guilt.

He gets left in the house at the moment when im gone for a day and is very well behaved ..no destruction or poops etc when i come back.

He has a very large sheltered kennel and run in the back garden where he can see the house and its full of blankets, warm and wind proof and is very comfortable for him etc.

I need advice on how to handle this situation and get him settled in the kennel for when i go back to work. I feel awfull about putting him in the kennel but Michael will NOT let me leave him in the house all day and to be honest i would sorta like him to be out in the fresh air where if needed he can relieve himself and not left in one room allday.

He will be in the kennel at the very most for 5 days a week, 9am -5 pm and will be walked every single morning and evening and as soon as we are home he will be indoors in the family home smothered with love. Me and Michael are completely in love with harvey but im feeling the guilt majorly.

He has been in his kennel a few times but it has not been routine which i feel was silly of me as when im at home i like him in the house with me and the non-routine of things doesn't help either. When he has been in their he will howl, jump up at the wire, rip at the wire with his teeth...we came back once to find he had ripped a hole in it and hung around in the back garden till we come back i really dont like to see him distressed..

I have asked the neighbours what he is like when i am out and she says he does little woofs and whines and then settles down then woofs and whines and settles down again..she says this carries on for awhile and he settles down until we get back but he doesnt go crazy with the barking and isnt causing a nuisance to the neighbours so i gratefully i wont have them hammering on the door and complaining.

We are reinforcing the kennel and run so it will be bomb/ harvey proof and it will be ready in a week and i need to get cracking on dealing with the kennel ..

 please give me some help and advice on how to deal with this..

Is there maybe a schedule which i could work to in preparation? Something i could follow~ I realise routine is the key here but im lost where to start an i dont want to take any wrong steps which could worsen the behaviour ..i need the training as much as Harvey on this one..although i havent got a job yet i may have soon in about a month.

At the moment he is in the house with me nearly every day .. i walk him in the morning and late afternoon and spend periods of time ignoring him and i initiate alot of the affection so he doesnt get it on demand.

-- Edited by twinkletoes at 07:10, 2005-10-03

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Okay Twink, I'm going to give you my advice on this although its not what you're looking for.  I do not like the idea of Harvey being outside alone all day.  Even when my dogs go out just for a potty break I stand outside or I watch from the window.  Its just to dangerous.  Go to www.drsfosterandsmith.com and buy him a large cage.  I bought one that is big enough to hold Toby (150 lbs.) and Zoe (17 lbs.) comfortably.  You can get lixit bottles to put on the side for water.  He will be very comfortable and warm.  Winter is coming.  I know you say he'll be warm but what if it starts to snow while you're at work and it takes you longer than usual to get to him.  I think you'd feel much better knowing he was in the house safe and warm.  Kittysmom can give you more advice on these cages and how to set them up and such.  She's the one who gave me that advice.

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im looking for any advice i can Z&T so thanks ..i really dont like the idea of Harvey being outside either ... i know he would be alot happier in the house. I have been looking at the crate thing for awhile..my mum used them with her 2 dogs and they then moved to a secure outdoor kennel..this is what works for her and i cant tell her otherwise lol.


Michael is really against the idea of crates .. he was brought up to think dogs belong outside ..blah blah ..its different in south africa although he loves Harvey they have a different way with dogs out there.


I  would love to get him a crate and i have just had a look on e-bay to see whats out there and i saw one which was


48" long 30" wide and 35" high (120cmx76cmx89cm) its pretty huge and im sure it can comfortably house Harvey at it was cheaper than i imagined and looks well made and strong.


 what im more woried about is...



  • can he be left alone the whole day in the crate say from 9-5pm ? obviously with water.

He will get exercise before i leave and exercise when i get home ..when is the bets time to feed him as he will more than likely not see anyone all day.


Im gonna get in such a fight with Micahel over this as we both have different views on crates.


Im also worried about the cold and any harm coming to him but michael may not be able to see that harvey is happier in the long run in a crate..he just thinks its cruel in a confined space ..i do not want to give Harvey the run of the house though


anyone elses opinionson whats best dont hold back ..tell it to me straight lol ..im going to speak to michael tonight about this and need all the opinions i can get


 



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This is not a crate it is a cage.  Its a lot bigger than any crate will ever be.  The dimensions of mine, I think, are 28" x 48" x 35" H.  This thing is huge.  Mine may be bigger than that, I can't remember.  They make one on drsfosterandsmith.com for this size that is 99.99 with free shipping and one that is 139.99 with free shipping so they are not expensive at all. 


You need to give Michael the den animals speech and find some things on the internet to show him.  Harvey will be a lot happier in the cage in the house because he will feel safe.  If you put him outside away from the surroundings he's used to being in and without you and Michael he's going to flip out.  If you put him in the room in the house he spends the most time in and put him some blankets and favorite toys in the cage with him he will be perfectly content.


I don't think his being in the cage like that is to long.  Dogs all across American stay in crates while their families work.


Also, maybe if for the first couple of weeks that you were leaving why don't you give Harvey his anxiety medicine?  Don't do it forever just give it to him for a couple of weeks to help him stay calm while he gets used to the new routine.


I don't know.  My advice may not be good.  I never talk anything over with my husband about the dogs.  I've just always done what I wanted.  He'll speak up and tell me if there's something he doesn't like and sometimes I change it and sometimes not but I never ask his opinion.  I just order a cage if I want to.  Maybe someone who does talk things over with their husband can give you a better opinion on how to talk Michael into the cage.



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i also know harvey will seriously flip out .. im sure he will be very happy in his cage in his room which he usually sleeps in at night and like you said many dogs across america do it so i think if it was cruel it would have been banned.


I wish i had your balls when it came to spending money lol Michael would sulk for a million years if i went out and bought one ..especially since we spent alot of money on the kennel and wont see much of that back if we sold it (as we would have no further need for it) and its his money im spending which he earnt not me ...


I personally cant put a price on walking out the house and knowing Harvey will be secure and happy and warm ..just need to convince michael



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Have you thought about just confining him to one room...like the kitchen. I remember when Oscar was a pup we used to put him in the kitchen with plenty of chew toys. You just have to remember to put the trash up. LOL!!! But oscar did great in the kitchen. He has never been in a crate though... Good luck.

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i have thought about keeping him in just one room and the only place we can do it has a futon, computer and dining table in which i fear may give harveys ideas to relieve the stress i think the safest option would be to cage him so he cant do any damage to himself or out belongings

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Boy, I did a good job on you, Zoe...
I am converting the world to caging dogs...
I think that it is ok for just that long...I guess that you would add on an hour getting to and from work, and that would be 10 hours you are gone. I don't stay away that long, myself, my shifts are shorter.
I have gone to Disneyland or San Diego, or the desert, and been away for 10 hours, and had no accidents to clean when I got home, which was surprizing.
Do keep the outside run, and reinforce it. You should have the option to put him out or in, according to the weather. The caging must be bomb proof, as you put it, so they don't injure themselves trying to get out, or god forbid, actually getting out, and running off into traffic while you aren't home. I would rather clean a potty oops, than think that my dogs were suffering weather, or insects, but secure outside kennels work in many weathers.
These indoor cages are very secure, and the dog has a water bottle on the side. I would say that potty time all morning, while you are getting ready for work, followed by a very light breakfast [I give a slice of whole wheat pita], and toys in the cage/kennel maybe with a radio playing, should do it. When you return home, immediate potty-time, followed by a good dinner should be just fine...I don't cage them on empty or full bellies. Both would be uncomfortable for that long.
I do give the main meal before I go to work, but I'm only gone 5-7 hours...they just sleep while I'm at work...



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I keep Lilly in a crate when I leave for work.  On hot days its too much for her at my job.  She also comes to work with me, and stays in a smaller crate.  She does great in it.  She will at times crate herself lately when  I tell my boys its time to go to school.  They do learn to love their little cubby holes. My other two have gone 10 hours without an accident. They drink very little when I am gone long. I too have gone to disneyland and back no accidents. They are not crated, as they don't chew.

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i have a different view, so you can all yell at me. i never crate or cage my dogs. they arrived in crates at the airport and as soon as we got home, the crates went bye bye. my yard is securely fenced, but my dogs only go out long enough to do their thing and come right back in.and i watch them while they are out. there is always someone home with quinn being disabled.on the rare times we are both gone, the dogs get put in the master bath. it a very large room, and i just put their bed, food, water and toys in there with them. i am extremely claustrophobic and i could never be locked up and never have ! i couldnt do that to my dogs either. thats just me. i just look at my dogs as my kids. i think they are even more spoiled than my two legged kids ever were.


so if it was my choice, i would find a room where you could keep him in while your gone. and just remove things that he might damage and fill it with the stuff that he is familiar with. toys, bed, food, water.try it for awhile and see how it goes. or you could try it for a few days while you are still home so that you can keep an eye and ear out and see hows he does.



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  Its going to be a tuff one for you!  I personally believe in crates, and a cage would be even better!  I also am gone at work for short intervals, and my 2 girls are not in there too long!  4 or 5 at the most hours at a time.  If you think he would freak more being out bring him in and cage them.  I know its hard to believe, but with even a crate, dogs have a denning instinct, and like the secure enclosed feeling!  If my dogs are scared, or if something stresses them out- Where do you think they go?  In there crates!  I used to think really awful things, until I crate trained 2 of them.  They work wonders!  They will go in them sometimes even if they arent stressed too!  I also would be scared of outdoor dangers.  Dog thieves, bad weather.  Or if there are any predetory animals were you live.  If Harvey has to be alone, just think where he would be the safest, and feel more secure!

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