Sending Piper to a behavioralist

ADMIN ANSY · Site Admin

Sending Piper to a behavioralist

XjessicaXburgiX · MAD DOG!

I am sure everything will come together with time. GOOD LUCK!

oasis05 · Moderator

I've never delt with one myself but it might be a good thing. 6 months seems like a long time though.

jawlaw · Moderator

I know absolutely nothing about this subject, but I'm going to comment anyway...lol. It seems to me if they take Piper away from you, you will have to start back over on earning his trust again. Unless you are at your wits end, I would not send him away for that long! How long have you had Piper now?

-- Edited by jawlaw at 14:54, 2005-03-14

jawlaw · Moderator

i am sure you have researched this, but the couple of articles I read, none talked about taking the dog for 6 months. This one is interesting.

http://www.k9partnership.com/BehConslt.html

MollieMae01 · Moderator

I'd be a little wary of this, ansy. Just from reading posts over at tp from a guy that took his dog to the behaviorist and the guy took off with the dog. It was a German Shepherd and it was still pretty young and the trainer said he would take it for a while and then said he "lost it" yeah right. The owner of the dog never got anything from the guy that lost his dog, just an apology, no money no new dog, nothing. The owner was going to take him to court over it but didn't. I would just do some research on the guy, references and such, before sending the dog to him, especially for 6 months. Piper might not even remember who you are by then!! JMO

Kittys Mom · ~Best In Show~ Senior Board Member!

Mollie Mae is right. That story came to mind also. Check with the man to see if he is insured for the loss of the dog. I put a cash value on my dogs (10,000.each, based on lost revenue from two litters of pups) When dealing with people, I point out that dogs are considered property by the law, and that I would never want it to happen, but should there be a problem, I would have to take anyone injuring, or getting them killed, to court for vet expenses, etc.
I have always insisted that the owner of the stud dog sign a paper that they have custody of my girl when I leave her for breeding and instruct them not to allow her off-leash or liberty, that she may get lost or hurt.
I am not a vey trusting person. A quick look at local laws may be in your favor. If the guy is a bit more careful with the dog it would not hurt. People often are not careful of something when it belongs to someone else. If they know if they break it, they pay for it, they may have a smarter attitude.
Also, do you know if this guy uses electric collars? Not everyone abuses them, but I saw a trainer one day that had the collar cinched up on the dog's neck to where it was in his ear (the shock unit) and he was shocking the dog as he was buffeting it with a padded bat. It would be nice to get references, and find out exactly what this guy does to the dog, to make it behave correctly.

Denise · You have been awarded the Posting Star of Honor!

I think a behaviorist can help tremendously but I too am very skeptical of one who says he needs to take your dog for 6 months. Granted I have never used one before but it would seem to me the ideal program would be where the behaviorist comes to your house & works with all of you. I wouldn't be as leery if he said he wanted to take Piper for 2-4 wks even but 6 mos. really seems to be over the top in my opinion. Any postings I have ever read on any of the forums I have visited have been where they come to your house.

I would definitely check references, etc. I have heard of some tremendous transformations they have been able to achieve which has resulted in happy dogs & happy families.

Kittys Mom · ~Best In Show~ Senior Board Member!

I'm not sure on length of time, but I think that your family needs to be schooled along w/the dog. It would not just revert to old behaviors when returned to the old enviornment?

StormyWinter · Moderator

Wow 6 months? Seems a little long to me. I would think that it would be almost pointless if he was to take him. I mean who says he will even remember you? He may think when he's driving off "why don't they like me? Why are they giving me away?" When he comes back he may remember that and go back to his old ways. Me personally would rather have the person come to my house and do all of this with my family.

ADMIN ANSY · Site Admin

WOW! Thanks for all the great info! I was really worried about him being gone for 6 months too. Thats longer than we have had him. We've only had him for 5 months. I'm going to call a few more behavioralists and see how they handle things.

I never even thought about them 'losing' the dog.....but anything can happen. You guys really came through on this one......way to go! Thanks again!

MollieMae01 · Moderator

Anytime, Ansy!! I'm glad I could post some really useful info on here. I just wanted you to be aware of what can happen, even though it's never happened to me. The guy that posted that story on tp wanted everyone to be aware of this and I think it's working for him.

I just wouldn't want to see you lose Piper after all you've done for him and all you've been through.

protodog · Forum Moderator

How old is Ivan now? I can't help but wonder what effect Piper's absence would have on Ivan.

Kittys Mom · ~Best In Show~ Senior Board Member!

Have you tried joining a local park and recreation obedience class like I do? I use them to socialise my dogs, as I tend to not do it on my own. I go year-round every Tuesday, one hour in the evening. 30 other dogs are there, in a variety of sizes/shapes. It is basic, sit, down ,stay, come and heel. I take my dogs after 6 mos. of age, but I will also take dogs that have already had the class before. It is like a well supervised dog park. The dogs do not interact with each other, but they learn to listen to you and ignore distractions. Maybe it is time to start getting out of the enviornment where he has developed his little quirks and get something else on his mind...

Kittys Mom · ~Best In Show~ Senior Board Member!

This guy is a new poster on Mike's forum, he seems pretty confident of himself. Ask him, or zip over to Mike's forum and pm him...
www.puppywishes.com

A puppy is a puppy. The guy should know about grown dogs, or at least about his fellow behaviorists

Paige · ~Grand Champion~ Gold Medal Poster!

I agree with everyone else. 6 months without the people he really needs to be around seems like a long time. Good luck with him.

ADMIN ANSY · Site Admin

I hadn't even thought about Ivan's reaction either. Could he get depressed?

As far as taking him to a park or something, thats a great idea but the problem is that we cannot get him into a crate or the back of a truck. At this point we have no way of transporting him anywhere which is why he hasn't been neutered yet. He is still terrified of small spaces and a crate would just do him in. I think we could possibly get hurt trying to achieve that.

He has only been transported that one time we brought him home and he hurt himself in the process. He basically went beserk and smashed his head into a deck which made his eyes all bloody. My husband had to pick him up and put him in the front of the truck and it was a nightmare coming home. Imagaine having a 100 lb dog going nuts in the cab of a truck while you are driving.

He still is doing OK on a leach - he doesn't jerk or anything, but I really don't see any way of transporting him. Any ideas on that? If we could get him to the park then I feel he'd be ok on the leash there.

Kittys Mom · ~Best In Show~ Senior Board Member!

Ya know, as weird as it seems I have had some success with the Bach's holistic remedy, rescue remedy- it comes in a spray, I add it to a mother hubbard cookie, or a tiny piece of whole grain bread and give it before I want to deal w/an issue, such as going outside at night. Meg is terrified

It helped initially, and we are working continuously to our goal. Meg is a freakin ' drama queen. Lots of Labs are that way. Removing the things that they react to, and ignoring their habits is big. The guy may have wanted to get the dog away from you because you are unknowingly increasing his psycosis. You do not coddle him, I hope. It also may help to take him completely out of his enviornment to establish your order, being that he is kinda new to you. Meg is working through a bad behavior that she invented months ago. She is making progress. Some of them are just not as bright as others, it takes them a little longer. You can only aid the process as you see fit.

ADMIN ANSY · Site Admin

KM, you bring up a great point. I have wondered many times if we are just hindering Piper in his progress. Neitehr of us have dealth with a dog like this and so we are primarily going on 'guess work' which hasn't worked as much as I'd have liked for it to. I am proud of the success we have made, but it just isn't enough. I don't know if it just hasn't been enough time, or we are doing something wrong, or a combination of both. Thats why I called a behavioralist, hoping to get some answers. I would never want to know that my own selfishness of loving a dog meant that I was harming him further. I really am torn here. Maybe there isn't any further help for Piper, maybe his problems are too deep, but I just don't see him having the quality of life that most dogs have and I want that for him so badly. He is such a great dog and as silly as this sounds........even if he barks/growls at a stranger (which he does), I know in my heart that he would never hurt a flea. Due to his size and his body language of being skittish, he appears very mean and aggressive to anyone who sees him and they think I'm crazy for allowing my kids around him. But there is just some kind of a connection we have with him......and I know you know what I'm talking about......where I "know" this dog and I know he is not dangerous. Of course I supervise my kids with him, as I would any animal, but my 3 year old has even sat on his back and played pony and not once did Piper ever even look agitated. It kills me to see this big ole baby of a dog and know that I cannot make him fully happy. I see him wanting to be with us, but still scared to. It's hard to realize that while you are trying to help an animal you could be hurting them worse, but that may be the case here.

Maybe I'm wanting something that just can't be, ya know?

I have 2 more behavioralists coming out next week. We'll see what they say.

Kittys Mom · ~Best In Show~ Senior Board Member!

Should work out. I am a big believer in second and third opinions