The Verdict is in!

MyPoundPuppies · Post-a-Holic - Give this person a rabies shot!

RE: The Verdict is in!

dusty082155 · ~Best In Show~ Senior Board Member!

and i deleted the part where i said no one here has been to his neverland bedroom. and so far you are the only one that has come on her to say you have. i didnt think you were a part of this forum as you only pop up when you have something rude to say.other than that i never hear anything from you. i never did see an apology from you when you said that nasty remark about scout. i dont consider anyone that has feelings as needing to grow up. but the ones that say rude and insensetive remarks should have been taught manners when they were children !

Raymond · 5:39 PM, 06/15/05

Im trying to be more nicer in my posting, but I still feel that I need to address your questions to me as they wede directed at me. Ill be as nice as possible.

You said: and i deleted the part where i said no one here has been to his neverland bedroom. and so far you are the only one that has come on her to say you have.

I say: and you also deleted the "or" neverland ranch. Dont make people think Ive been in MJs bedroom. Your not being nice.

You said: i didnt think you were a part of this forum as you only pop up when you have something rude to say.other than that i never hear anything from you.

I say: Im new here. Give me a break. Right now, I feel the same way about you "i didnt think you were a part of this forum as you only pop up when you have something rude to say.other than that i never hear anything from you".

You say: i never did see an apology from you when you said that nasty remark about scout.

I say: Ok, here goes..... Im sorry for posting the nasty email where Scout threatened Watcher in. It was an inappropriate time for that and in the wrong folder.

You say: i dont consider anyone that has feelings as needing to grow up.

I say: where did that come from?

You say: but the ones that say rude and insensetive remarks should have been taught manners when they were children !

I say: you dont mean what I think you said, do you?

Now that I answered your non animal related questions, do you pet related questions?

dusty082155 · ~Best In Show~ Senior Board Member!

if you have been following the post you would see that this is not a pet only related forum. and my post count does show that i do not only come on here to make smart remarks. if you would like you can go back through all the post and show me where even once i have been rude to anyone. can you say the same? i have been here alot longer than you and i would rather not waste any more of my time having to explain myself to you. so thats all i have to say to you about anything. i will not reply to your post if you ever decide to actually start one. and i would prefer that if you dont have anything positive to say then please dont reply to mine.............thank you

-- Edited by dusty082155 at 18:54, 2005-06-15

Troubled in Tombstone · Puppy Post'er (I'm gonna be one BAD dog someday!)

To all,

I really don't want to beat a dead horse but as I think about my post to Dusty, in retrospect I should have not critisized her about her opinion but rather just limited my post to voicing my opinion. But it is what it is and I have never been shy about offering my opinion when I feel strongly about the subject matter.

Moving on, with the subject being brought up about those of us who don't visit that often and pop in from time to time....I am guilty of that as charged. But I will be straight up with all of you and say that if anyone expects this old gunslinger to reach the post totals of some of our more distinguished posters....not happening ladies. I don't have enough time in my day or in my night to post on a pet forum or any other forum, hundreds and even thousnads of times. For example if you scan through the posters on this thread, you find: 1232 posts, 1094 posts, 962 posts, 443 posts, 237 posts it goes on and on and I can't commit to that much chat.

Also there have been complaints about topics that were not pet related, this begs me to ask about the American idol thread and the verdict is in thread. What may I ask do these topics have to do with pets? It sounds an awful lot like a double standard to me.

And last but not least, is anyone other than me disturbed by Raymond's avatar???? That is weird, again just my opinion!!!!

T in T

Paige · ~Grand Champion~ Gold Medal Poster!

Actually Tnt... thats the great place about this place. You don't have to just talk pets.

Pitsanddobes · Post-a-Holic - Give this person a rabies shot!

I don't leave my kids with ANYONE not even my own mother but then that is just me. I think MJ is a bit weird ...well ok he is alot weird but being weird is not a crime. Someone once said that thay should be able to walk up and down the street with a fruitcake strapped to their head and it is no one elses dang business...don't like it fine who asked you to wear one? That being said while I do not agree with the alcohol being given to minors there is just no solid proof of it just liek there is no proof he molested or attempted to molest anyone. Had it been one of my kids you can be sure a trial would have never happend it would never have gotten that far but again I leave my children with noone ever period! And as for OJ he knew what happend that is obvious and he knew who did it that is also obvious but clearly it was not him. I strongly believe he is protecting someone else who must mean a great deal to him. JMO. Anyway I am at least glad to see that for once our judicial system in this country has worked properly.

Who are any of us to say he needs mental help? We are not doctors and we have not evaluated him personally. I am in no way condoning some of his actions nor his statements however I am seriously troubled at some of what I am reading. Opinions are one thing but to flat out judge someone as some of you are is a bit much. Too many times people are judged and convicted of things they are accused of simply because they are WEIRD. So what is weird to us may not be weird to someone else. I know all too well what it feels like to have someone play judge, jury and executioner over me simply because I am different then most and it is no picnic. That kind of attitude can destroy someones life! And I see no good justifiable reason to destroy someone simply because they are weird. Hell half of us are weird to other people but we don't belong in prison because of it.

Troubled in Tombstone · Puppy Post'er (I'm gonna be one BAD dog someday!)

Wow Pits,

I wasn't going to post on this thread again and hope it faded away into the sunset, but holy smokes your post is idiotic. Remind me not to let you babysit one of my kids.

We live in a free country that allows us to have our own opinions, think and say what we want and do what we want within the guidelines and laws of modern society.

Have one of your children go to Neverland with a rubber sheet and a 55 gallon drum of vaseline and see what happens.

T in T

-- Edited by Troubled in Tombstone at 22:23, 2005-06-15
Edited to remove offensive material. Save it for the NC17 folder, T. If you need access, pm Ansy and she'll gladly give it to you.

-- Edited by MollieMae01 at 23:11, 2005-06-15

shinyblackpit · Post-a-Holic - Give this person a rabies shot!

I would say he probably does need mental help from hearing his own statements and also from seeing what he has done to his own body. I know that many people have cosmetic surgery... but who changes their entire skin color to look like another race? And the statements about children and sleeping (and I am referring to his own comments) non-sexually with young boys... that is unstable, for sure. Even if a person wanted to do that; to do it, knowing what any person on earth would think that you were actually doing (inappropriate stuff), I would think most stable people of sound mind would show the kids a good time in the daytime, maybe read them a story as a group, kiss them goodnight, tuck them in, and go sleep somewhere else!

MollieMae01 · Moderator

T, I know I am guilty of asking Raymond if he's ever posted anything remotely pet-related. But I question his reasoning for being here simply because I haven't seen him post anything pet-related. Not that it's in the rules that you have to, but why would someone come to a PET forum to talk about how stupid someone is for their opinions or to tell someone that they're racist (where the h*ll did that one come from again??), or to pm to someone that they need to be shot for their differing opinions?? Please tell me that. I came on here to talk about pets...........and on top of that, we're allowed to talk about non pet-related topics, which is what's truly great about this forum. No, it's not in the rules that you have to talk about pets, but it sure would be nice if he would tell us about his pets, just for a change of pace for him. I know I've seen you post about your pets before, your dobes named after Wyatt Earp and his 2 brothers, and your wife's lil lapdogs (I don't remember which kind she has), and how your one dobe died, which was very sad. But you don't always come on here just to start sh*t. I've seen that. You've been a good poster, wanting to always make us laugh and just talking about stuff and voicing your opinion on things. I know you've been busy helping your friend out and that's great too. What do we know about Raymond?? Just that he always has some smart a$$ comment to everything, that's it. And that he hates Scout, even though that's not even his battle. Sorry for the long post, but come on!! Answer me that, Ray!!

Pitsanddobes · Post-a-Holic - Give this person a rabies shot!

Wow Pits,
I wasn't going to post on this thread again and hope it faded away into the sunset, but holy smokes your post is idiotic. I will have to go back to the border and snipe a few Mexicans tonight just to get over that post. Remind me not to let you babysit one of my kids.

We live in a free country that allows us to have our own opinions, think and say what we want and do what we want within the guidelines and laws of modern society.

Have one of your children go to Neverland with a rubber sheet and a 55 gallon drum of vaseline and see what happens.

T in T

OK I MAY VERY WELL GET EDITED BUT I WILL CERTAINLY SPEAK MY MIND ON THIS ONE!

FIRST OF ALL TNT your comment about mexicans has p*ssed me off on more then one occasion and quite frankly I have had my fill of it! I have a daughter who is half mexican and your comments are offensive and barbaric! So DON'T say it again. I am sick to death of the racial comments you make and it needs to stop!

SECOND I often wonder if you are illeiterate as you seem to not be able to read a complete post and grasp what is said. Did I not JUST say no one watches my kids? NEVER speak to me is such a way again EVER! I will not sit back and take that kind of disrespect from you or anyone! People are people no matter what their race and if you are truly working the boarders I have some serious reservations about our current policies regarding the qualifications and screening process for that job. Yes we can think what ever we like but what we can say is a different story. Your comments go way beyond your right to freedom of speech. See you only have that right so long as when you exercize that right you are not infringing on someone elses right not to be subjected to your offensive garbage!

Third I have to say shiny that while I respect your opinion I have to disagree. While I agree that for me the plastic surgery is a bit much it is his choice after all. There is nothing wrong with his changing his skin color. What is the difference between him bleaching his skin and you or I baking in the sun to change our skin from white to cocoa brown? Who cares if he wants lighter skin? And as for the sleeping in the bed issue well now I agree that was not the wisest choice but on the other hand that does not make him a child molester. My niece and nephews sleep in my bed when they are with me so are your telling me that makes me a child molester? Granted they were not related to him but so what? It still does not make him guilty. Do I condone his actions? NO! Would I have done the same had it been me? NO! But still there is no proof he molested any child.

Edited to remove a letter from an offensive word.

-- Edited by MollieMae01 at 23:13, 2005-06-15

shinyblackpit · Post-a-Holic - Give this person a rabies shot!

No, i don't think sleeping with your neices and nephews makes you bad at all. sometimes I sleep with my kids, and if my best friend's kids (best friends of 15 years, no different than family) had nightmares or something and wanted to sleep with me that would be perfectly okay. But if my son had a sleepover party for his birthday, and I or my husband slept in the bed with one of his friends that was over, I am sure his parents would have a problem with that. Know what I mean?

PitPat2AZ · 10:17 PM, 06/15/05

Kind of keeping with the topic, but what ever happen to R. Kelly? He was charged with molesting young girls. As far as I know, he's still walking around and as popular as ever. Seems like that just got swept under the ol' carpet.

There's no doubt that there's "Celebrity Justice." M. Jackson, O.J. Simpson, Robert Blake, Winnona Ryder, Kobe Bryant, just to name a few.

I bet Martha Stewart feels like doggie doo-doo.

Pitsanddobes · Post-a-Holic - Give this person a rabies shot!

I agree Shiny but still all I am saying is the guy is obviously weird and made a bad judgment call from all I have seen there is no evidence that he molested any child. And again being weird is not a crime.

MollieMae01 · Moderator

T- I'm gonna have to tell you this, just like I told Raymond: The policy, as told to me by Ansy, is three strikes and you're out. What you said about Mexicans is the first strike. I'm sorry, but it says in the rules not to post something that children should not see, or links to things that children should not see. Also says to treat chat/forum mods with respect: no name calling. I did not take your calling Pits' post "idiotic" as name calling, because it wasn't but I'm just warning you.

shinyblackpit · Post-a-Holic - Give this person a rabies shot!

Pitsanddobes wrote:

I agree Shiny but still all I am saying is the guy is obviously weird and made a bad judgment call from all I have seen there is no evidence that he molested any child. And again being weird is not a crime.

I'm there with ya. I think the jury did the right thing. If there's not evidence to convict, if there's a reasonable doubt, then it's not guilty. That is our court system and it does protect the innocent. I wouldn't have it any other way. However, we know that things that happen in private are hard to prove, particularly years later, so where I do agree that with insufficient evidence, the jury did the best thing, I still personally believe that he molested children. Certainly wouldn't have Eli or Sidney staying the night with him.

oasis05 · Moderator

Oops.....there i disagree Raymond...lol I don't see much talent in MJ's dancing. I've never really been a fan of his and if he did harm those children then i will never like him. I am inclined to believe he did.

Barnabbus The True · Puppy Post'er (I'm gonna be one BAD dog someday!)

Well, let's see here.... how many times has this happened before???...... did anyone really think he was going to be found guilty?? If he's not guilty, ok then leave him alone..... and if he is guilty, he's surely got enough money to get out of it......c'mon it's MICHAEL JACKSON, and anyone has a price..... so if he is guilty; we'll never know.... and if he's not, it's over for him anyway. and that's my 2 cents.

MyPoundPuppies · Post-a-Holic - Give this person a rabies shot!

Pits, there is a fine line between an a opinion and judging someone. I have absolutely judged him. Not on a one time thing or over a short period of time either. Too many years of this crap. He just keeps himself on the edge.

I sure don't mean to offend you with my opinion or judgement, but that's kind of what these places are about. The chance to swap ideas and share thoughts. I don't agree with a whole bunch of the crap said here and other threads. But, to me, it is just not worth getting my panties in a wad over. Ya know?

I don't have any hard core facts on MJ, I don't know him, I haven't seen his every day life, but the absolute bottom line is....he keeps pushing his luck in this area of his life and now he looks shady. I deal with this same issue on a daily basis with my kids....if you don't want to be accused of a certain action...then stay away from that certain area of trouble!!! (Does that makes sense?? lol)

Anyways, as far as MJ being mentally ill. I have watched a couple of good documentaries on people obsessed with plastic surgery. It is an illness. They can't accomplish the look they think they want and they go until their face is mutilated. That is an illness and I wholeheartedly, 100% believe MJ is ill. And to me that is only one aspect of his illness.

Just my opinion and, yes, I have judged him, but that is the freedom we all have.

Troubled in Tombstone · Puppy Post'er (I'm gonna be one BAD dog someday!)

Mollie,

First of all let me say that one strike or three strikes for my comments really has no effect because in all honesty if I was banned from this or any other forum for speaking my mind it would have zero effect on me whatsoever. My world would continue on exactly like it is whether I am here or not. Now don't get me wrong, I do enjoy many of the people here and I would miss some of the chatter but I have to say that on this forum in particular you are treated differently by the number of posts you write. That is a fact!

I have been involved in law enforcement most of my adult life and I have always believed in the statement "innocent until proven guilty". Unfortunately as a father, I am sensitive and very defensive about issues like those surrounding MJ and others who allegedly are child molesters....and those like MJ who in my mind are guilty! Remember he paid huge sums of money in the past "hush money" to make other charges go away. In my life if I was accused of something and innocent, I wouldn't pay a penny to make something that wasn't true go away, would you.

As far as Pits taking offense to the comments about the Mexicans, I shouldn't have said that and will never say anything like that again. However I have always made it clear that I do volunteer at the border and need you all to remember that those people that are crossing the border into the US in the middle of the night (some armed) are breaking the law and every night that me and the other volunteers go out there we are risking life and limb. Forget about the volunteers as we don't have to be there but the actual border patrol agents who do that for a living are in jeopardy every single day and night. And as far as offending you about the nationality of people I am talking about, it isn't Canadiens that are hiding under the hoods of cars, stuffing 50 to 60 people in a box truck and running through the desert with machette's in their hands now is it???? How did you feel when the border patrol officer was killed a few weeks ago defending our borders in the middle of the night???? Was it a Canadien that killed him?

For anyone (Pits) to refer to me as a racist goes way beyond the scope of reality and the truth. Anyone that knows me knows that I am not a racist. One week out of the summer I open up the B&B to underpriveleged kids who want to experience life on a ranch. I personally buy them cowboy hats and boots and we let them be part of a reenactment ceremony in Tombstone. We give them stage coach rides, train rides, ride horses and we let them stay with their parents for 4 days and 3 nights at the B&B bunkhouse for free! And you know what Pits, most of them are poor Mexican families or native American indian families who can't afford squat for their kids. So take back your offensive racist comment, and don't ever write that about me again. There are things that I say that offends you well touche lady!

The last topic that I want to touch on is Raymond, I don't even know who he he is. I did not invite him here and I don't feel like I should have to defend him because I won't. The Watcher is a good friend who invited me here months ago and he I will defend when necessary. My suggestion is that if you want to chastise Raymond then do it, I did not ask or expect him to defend my post. I never asked him to request an apology on my behalf so please don't tie me in with him on your responses or make comparisons.

So Mollie or Ansy or anyone else, after reading this you want to stop me from posting then have a field day!

By the way, Wyatt and Virgil are doing great, we are giving Virgil glucosimine daily for arthritis but the hot days help him. And Sally's dogs are Jack Russell terriers and Wyatt doesn't like them very much, so I let him keep them in line especially when Sally goes to visit her mom.

T in T