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KatzPomDogz


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Bad response from breeder?
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Am I wrong or is this just screaming a bad Idea?? Here is what I wrote to them......



Hello,
  My name is Summer and I have been a chow lover for years. We just had to put one of our chow mixes to sleep on the 8th. :( Our other dog, Koda, also a chow mix, is going through a depression as well as the rest of the family. I have worked at two different shelters for three years and have always been an advocate of the chow breed as they are very misunderstood but what they are "hated" for, is why I love them. Anyway, I was wondering if you were planning any litters of puppies again with Snowflake and Jack Frost again?? Those were some of the most gorgeous puppies. If so, is there any way to be notified when you do? Also, do you do health testing on your dogs? We just had to put Kaia to sleep due to severe luxating Patella's and also a rare congenital defect called Pituitary Dwarfism. So health testing is EXTREMELY important to me. What is the average price of a pet puppy? Sorry to ask so many questions. I think I should tell you a little about us......
We live in a small town in Washington State, we have a 3 full lots and it is fully fenced, there is a 20x40 kennel where the dogs stay when we are not home, which is hardly ever as I am a stay at home mom and my husband owns his own business. I have two little girls ages 3 and 5 who have grown up around a ton of animals, we have always had animals, and I also did foster care for the shelters periodically. My girls have been raised to have the utmost respect for animals. And they are never left alone with the dogs, even though I 100% trust Koda with them and vice versa, I know he is still a dog and I just do not allow them to be alone unsupervised. We also have 3 cats. I do know the typical chow temperament with cats but my cats are usually never in the house at the same time as the dogs anyway. We are very into dog training, Koda starts on Tuesday in Advanced Novice Training and we are hoping to make him a therapy dog as well as do Competition. If there is anything else I have left out please feel free to ask, Thank you,


 



 


This is the response I got back about their chow puppies.......(I've underlined parts of it)(also edited a word)



 


Unfortunately, Snowflake was mistakenly bred back to back and she will not be having another litter for some time. At "least" a year and then we will look at it and see.  If she's not in tiptop shape we'll pass then too.  She is fine but I love my dogs and feel that she has earned a well deserved rest and believe me I've had the same request before.  We have several females so that I can rotate them and not wear any of them out as well as always seeking to improve them.  We will be having more pups and hopefully Jack will be fathering more creams but I couldn't possibly say when.  We have two litters now but they are all reds and blacks with one very lite cinnamon.  Our pups generally run about $600.  As for testing, if I hip checked, eye checked etc., I couldn't possibly sell them at a reasonable rate.  They are vet checked and if I suspect anything I will have it checked but other than that, they just have a routine check up.  We do not knowingly breed bad stock.  For example we have a beautiful golden colored male with white feathering but he has bad eyes and thus we will have his eyes fixed he'll be neutered and hopefully placed with a loving home.  All I can say is I would relate it to adopting a child, if you didn't want a child that "might" not be perfect then you really don't need that child.  Believe me  I understand the heartache of having to put a beloved pet to sleep.  We've been raising chows for 20 years and have had to face this from time to time ourselves.  We will only garantee our puppies to be healthy and free of disease at the time of sale.  They are not allowed to leave here until they are at least 8wks and by then they will have been given  at the very least their first set of shots and wormed several times.  If you check around I think that you will find that abou the only people who might "possibly" do a lot of testing are people who are raising show quality animals and selling them anywhere from $1800 up.  As for a chows temperment with cats, it's pretty much like most dogs of the dominate type, if they are raised with them it's fine.  We've sold some to people with cats and they say they have done fine.  Well that's the best I can tell you at this time except that our pups are socialized and handled extensively from birth.  In fact we got one b*tch with her two puppies in the bedroom with us now and we are constantly working to breed good sound babies.  If you have any other questions just let me know.  You evidently are quite knowledgable of dogs and hope you find what your looking for.  Sorry about your loss.  Sandy



 



-- Edited by KatzPomDogz at 19:59, 2005-09-14

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dusty082155


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RE: Bad response from breeder
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i dont really know how to take her reply. i would be concerned that they dont do any health testing on their breeding stock. a girl i work with has two chows. a black and a red. her last litter she had one black, one red, and one cream. she sold them for 200 with AKC papers.all her pups have been healthy.and she didnt have any health testing on them. but with the problems that you have been through with your kaia, i think having the sire and the dam tested prior to breeding would be something that you would feel better about. if the price is not an issue, i would find a breeder that does the testing. i gave you a link to chrisma's and they do test their dogs.

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KatzPomDogz


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I have found many breeders that do the testing and do not always charge that much for them. Actually, I found one who charges $50 more then her with full AKC papers. They are the ones I am looking at but I am waiting for references from puppy buyers as well as vets. Do you think asking for that is wrong? I just can't go through another dog like Kaia.


This persons dogs are gorgeous but without health testing of the lines, it scares me that I will end up with another dog like her. And although I loved her dearly, I just can't do that again.



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dusty082155


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no , it is good to ask for references. the more the better too. if they are not willing to provide you with any, then i would shy away. with all that you have been through, you are right to be concerned about any possible health issues. just because they say they have had all healthy pups is not enough. i would want to see proof that the testing was done, for my own peace of mind. then you know that your pup has a better chance of not developing any of the problems prone to the breed. you are the buyer, you have every right to do all the checking you need before purchasing your dog.

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PrettyDobie


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I myself wouldn't get a puppy from these people there are too many things that don't make since in what they said.

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lovinOEBs


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  Dont get a pup from that lady!  I got Holly from a breeder who said the same thing about comparing a pups health to that of adopting a child.  Not a good sign!  Holly has a heart murmer and a liver shunt!    I just am too big of a softie.  If they are not willing to test pups, then save yourself the trouble, money and heartache!!!!  Sounds bad~IMO !

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Sandyboo


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this is definetly not a breeder i would be interested in getting a puppy from! her dog was mistakenly bred back to back, what kind of crud is that? and no health testing done....if i were you i would look elsewhere!

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Kittys Mom


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Finally reading this thread, I have to assume it is a joke.
If not, you know darn good and well what is normal, Katz.
If you are establishing a teaching thread, please let it be known, in PM's if no where else....

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KatzPomDogz


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okay, well first of all it is not a joke. Yes, I know what is "normal", however, it never ceases to amaze me what people will reply back with. Sorry if this offened you at all KM, I will try and keep my posts to only "smart" ones.

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Kittys Mom


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No I'm not offended.
It just seems that a lot of your posts come from a naive, first time buyer viewpoint, and I have heard a lot of posts from you on 3 forums [for more than a year] that indicate you are very knowlegeble about breeding and selling of dogs.
It is just that the content surprizes me. I just was wondering if you were just trying to provoke a response, but really know the answers to some of the questions.
I remember some of the arguements that would ensue[remember AKC/CKC, that was a fun one].
Post what you want, however you want. Me I'm a back seat driver, too. Ignore my snippinessI did not say that in a nice way.
Kitty



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Kittys Mom


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By the way, I did not like her letter one bit, and for that price[$600.] She could well afford testing.
My friend that has a 60 bay kennel, with as many animals breeding as the one large operation you mentioned, never breeds dogs not eye, hip, and elbow certified. She sells hers for that price, although I think they recently went up to $650. She is inspected by both AKC [DNA and standards] and Animal Control/Humane every year.
I agree that back to backs in that enviornment are unlikely to be accidental.
Having recently finished tests on my Hitman line grandaughter, I can say that $250. was all the testing, and covered the fees that have OFA,OFAelbow and CERF certificates in my hand. Of course, if someone says" I could not spend $250. to make $3,000+ off only one litter", you know that is wrong.

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KatzPomDogz


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I basically posted this with the intent to show the progress of my puppy search. I am certain that it will never cease to amaze me the excuses people will come up with to justify what they do.


  I am honestly suprised that out of the 15+ places I have e-mailed, I have only found two people that I am even considering. One of which lives just on the other side of the state as me. I have looked at them before. We are planning a trip over there next month anyway, and so I may see if we can visit. If not, I will schedule a different trip. It is not a big deal for us, it is only 4 hours away. The other one, if we decide on them is about a 8 day trip(there and back) as I do not want a puppy shipped to me.



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Kittys Mom


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Yeah, sorry, I got that when I slapped myself for being a female dog and reread your posts all in detail.
Actually, I am really glad to have you here, and I think it's great all the posts and conversations you make contribute so much to the forum. So, to show my gratitude, I make snotty remarks that I need to be spanked for. Don't get old. I swear I am such a grump.
It is exciting to hunt for a dog.
I have been on hiatus from having puppies because of burn-out and I think a lot of my crap attitude comes from that. I got so tired of talking to judgemental or ignorant puppy buyers, that I think I have a lot of pent up hostility towards people looking for a pup [no, really?].
I will try to keep a civil tongue in my head.
Honestly, I'm working on it...that is why I have not sold pups in more than a year, and gave away[to people who have produced Champion quality litters] 3 fully certified, young, brood bitc#s, and sold as a pet- one other.
I still have plenty of girls. My oldest is 4 and virgin. The Hitman granddaughter is 2 1/2, newly certified, and unbred. I need an attitude adjustment, and some real nice, caring, APPRECIATIVE puppy buyers to produce something nice in the future.
I am trying to get a feel for the internet and get a wider response base. I miss the old days when I could pick through a dozen eager buyers to find that one cush, perfect home for each pup, according to the individual dog. I think since advertizing is switching from paper to internet, a lot of the best buyers are hard to find...
Anyway, good luck with your puppy search.
I don't care much for Chows because of the reputation they have. I was kinda shocked that, as you mentioned, and I just realized, those Martha Stewart dogs are the same breed. I guess it is like with Labs...there are docile sweet ones, and hyper obnoxious ones, depends on the parents and breeding...
Good luck. I will tweak my attitude to be more helpful in the future.

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KatzPomDogz


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Thank you KM, I understand what you are going through. As mystified as I can get about buyers sending e-mails that say nothing other then "how much are the puppies?", I get as blown away by breeders like this one. I honestly couldn't believe that she would send me an e-mail saying what she did. I appreciate you saying what you did. Thank you.


 



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