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Post Info TOPIC: Question about punishment for aggression


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Question about punishment for aggression


Chi-Ching was laying on the floor when my nephew (7 months) pulled the fur on his neck, Chi-Ching reacted by growling and tried to nip him. We were right on it and seperated them both and I grabbed Chingy and rolled him over and said "NO" loudly until he looked away. Then I put him in his crate. Skylar(nephew) is fine.
We have a zero tolerance for aggression in my house, even in a situation like this. I know that they shouldn't have been together but we were literally sitting a foot away from both.
Anyway, do you think that this was an appropriate punishment for him? Do you think I was too hard on him? (Am I being over paranoid?)

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I would try doing it myself and see if he reacts the same way. If he does keep doing it and keep telling him no loudly. Once he stops ignore him. That way he will know that when he reacts that way he will not get any attation. Of Course don't do it hard just lightly tug of the mane. I may also try doing that on his tail and ears. They tend to be pretty protective of those parts sometimes.


I'm sure someone else may have a better idea.



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Ella isn't exactly a Chow Chow, lol, but we had the same problem with her when we first got her. She was trying on that whole 'alpha role' thing for size, but didn't get too far, hehe. I did pretty much the same thing, but you have to be super consistent. If you let it happen just once, then it's like it is with children, he will see the loophole and test the limits more. With Ella, I would immediately roll her over on her back and pin her down and in a growly voice would say 'no' and stare her down. I wouldn't let her up if she wriggled or growled more. I only let her up when she stopped and just laid there. I did this whenever she growled. If she nipped however, I would do the scruff shake and immediately put her in her kennel saying no the entire time I was carrying her in there. It took a few weeks, but she learned, lol.


I would also start integrating your children into his care. Have them be the ones to feed him. 'Sit' would be the first command I would teach him, and then have your kids make him sit before being fed. Then they will learn the social order in your house. 



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I would NOT recommend the alpha roll because the practice came from bad research on wolves in the 30s and 40s.  The researchers misinterpreted what they saw.  (I'll find you a link later when I have a chance.)  One wolf will not roll another wolf unless he intends to kill the wolf, so what you are saying to the pup is, "I intend to kill you."  The alpha roll teaches the pup that you are dangerous and not fit to lead, not exactly what you want the pup to think. 


Your nephew probably was hurting him, and he was trying to tell your nephew to stop pulling the only way he knew how at this point.  Most "missed" bites/nips are misses on purpose.  I would suggest keeping them more than a foot apart because a 7-month-old child can't possibly understand what's going on with the pup.  Whenever your nephew is over, you can feed him a few small treats when he is calm to help teach him that the presence of small children is a good thing.  Also, like Stormy suggested, if you don't like his behavior, ignore him.  Don't put him in the crate, but rather refuse to make eye contact, and don't pet him or speak to him.  Leader dogs don't roll others; they shun.



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You might also try tugging a little on his fur like brushing or combing to get him used to it.

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Proto, I would love to read that link if you have the time, sounds really interesting, I didn't know any of that. I feel dumb now, lol. I did it with Ella because it was what I was told by a trainer, and it worked so I just assumed. Oops..lol

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I'll find the link for you, but I need a little time to do so.  I found a great site somewhere that has a handful of articles on the subject, including a couple by Ian Dunbar, and now I'm having trouble finding my way back to the site.


Don't feel bad about having done the roll.  We've all gotten unfortunate advice from trainers.  I used a prong collar on Argus because trainers told me to, but I now know that a dog with as soft a temperament as she has should never wear a prong collar.  I'd known plenty of dogs who wore prong collars without seeming to experience any emotional damage, so I believed the trainers who said she should wear one.  I'm currently working like crazy to undo some of the damage the prong collar (and compulsive methods and over-corrections) did.  We're making progress, but I can't really erase the past.



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The majority of the time I would put Ella in her kennel and would just ignore her. But I do admit that I would roll over on back quite a few times too.  I always thought that meant that I was the 'alpha' and not her, not that I was threatening her. I'll remember that if I ever get another dog though, thanks for the advice.


But while we're on the subject of bad ways to deal with bad behavior, the one I hate the most is when people hit their dogs when they don't come. I mean, I don't like when people hit their dogs at all, but when they do it then, that's the absolute worst to me. I don't get how that's going to get them to listen. All they think is 'yeah right! If I come to her she's going to hit me!'



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