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Post Info TOPIC: Making a living on dogs....Food for thought


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Making a living on dogs....Food for thought


What do you all think of people making a living off dogs and dogs alone (don't worry...I don't)? Just doing all the "proper" health tests on the adults, possibly having a fancy website, and then selling puppies for a ridiculous amount of money ... all year long ... litter after litter ... and having that be your only income. Let's even assume all the puppies are healthy. Let's assume that most of them have acceptable temperaments and are good examples of the breed (even the best breeders will not get 100% quality pups born in a litter). And let's further assume a decent number of the pups work or do what they were bred to do.


Glorified puppymill?


If someone breeds 2 great dogs together and gets great pups one or twice a year, are they a BYB if their intent is to make money?


To attempt to place a moral limitation on canine breeding to the wealthy, the dilettantes, the hobbyists, etc., is a mistake (the wealthy can afford the testing, clinics, training - the poor cannot).  So, in our current way of thinking, if someone (without the finances)  obtains 2 good dogs and breeds them then they are a BYB, regardless of the bloodlines, health of the dogs, temperments, etc.  Why is this fair?  Why does this double standard exist?


And whats with the excuse of "bettering the breed"?  Isn't 'bettering the breed' the natural result of good dogs?  So, even if you are breeding soley for money and you produce good dogs (even if by chance) are you still not bettering the breed?  I have NEVER heard a breeder say they breed just to 'better the breed'.


Some people do their own work.  Costs for vaccines are reasonable if given at home (rabies because of liability issues is a different matter). Many people with livestock have microscopes for doing fecals. Not every dog that is bred needs Penn-Hip or OFA tests.  Are they now a BYB since they don't use an expensive vet as often as others think they should?


In my attempt to register at Terrific Pets (and also on a few other forums) I always read about things such as puppy mills, BYB's, and bettering the breed.  All seem to be used as blanket statements by those who like to promote themsleves and their views.  But what value do their views really hold?  Why is their view right?  Why should we abide by what they think?  What qualifications do they hold?


Now that I've read many posts, I can clearly see that is a one way street over there.  You agree with them and their views or you are lashed out at, belittled, and made to feel dumb.  Sad.


I was filled in a little about them being a rival forum by the person who told me about this place and I will not name names because they are a regular poster over there, so I'm not trying to open old wounds, just expressing what I see.  It is not a community minded forum at all.  It appears to be more of a group of desperate housewives sharing "I told you so" stories.  In fact, they are such a closed community, they no longer allow registrations.  I liked it at first glance because of the number of people who post there knowing I could get quick replies, but now, I'd rather get a slow reply with a logical answer than the copy/paste method they must use there of repetitive user bashing and self promotion.


Thank God there are other places one can go and discuss things openly, even if we don't all agree.  I'm not sure what my views are on the above scenario's, but it does make me think.




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Let me start off by saying I don't, have never and will never breed dogs.  Since I was young & living home with my parents all of the dogs I have ever had, up until my current two, were rescues and were mixed breeds except for 2 rescued great danes. 


When I got my 1st standard poodle I had heard enough to never get a pup from a pet store or puppy mill but I wasn't as knowledgeable as I should have been.  I got Farley sight unseen, with no references, etc. and I got him through a local "breeder" who got him from another "breeder" in a different state.  I have been extremely lucky and except for allergies he is a perfect companion for me.  Chloe I got through a local breeder who did all the appropriate testing and had the backup to prove it - she had 2 females & 1 male and bred her females infrequently.  I got her at 3 mos. and she was 9o% housetrained. Chloe has had a few episodes in the past 3 yrs of seizures but other than that she is healthy, happy & a joy to have.


My personal opinion is that if breeding is done correctly I honestly don't see how someone could do it and make a living from it.  Many breeds have inherent health problems and all the appropriate testing should be done to assure as much as humanly possible that any being used for breeding will not be passing these traits on to a litter.  The goal should be to have pups as healthy as possible and a responsible breeder wouldn't be willing to take a chance of producing pups with problems if it is something that the potential for can be determined beforehand.


Then I also think of the females being used for breeding.  For the sake of their health & well-being they shouldn't be bred before the age of 2 (from what I've heard) and they shouldn't be bred every heat.  Many irresponsible breeders breed these poor furgals to death.  She should be allowed to just be a companion as well as participate in activities that she enjoys.  She wasn't born just to be a puppy making machine.


Another aspect is having multiple litters because many puppies means more money coming in.  A responsible breeder accepts alot of responsibility for their pups and limit the number of litters due to all the time they invest in the pups.  They not only take care of all that is needed medically but they are "hands-on" with the pups right from day one until the day they go to their new home.  Pups need alot of socialization as well as need to be closely observed.  Someone who has enough litters to make a living has too many pups to do the above well and it is the pups who will suffer for it and their new owners who will have the headache and heartache.


A responsible breeder will not sell their pups to just anyone who has the $$$.  They want to make sure as much as possible that the pup will be placed with someone who is responsible and able to take care of the pup not only financially but as well as training, able to keep the pup as safe as anyone can as well as want a pup for the right reasons.  They want to make sure that the breed is compatible with the lifestyle of those who want their puppies.  With the time they have invested in observing the pups they can usually make a pretty good match between personalities of the pup and the potential owner or know that their breed will not be compatible with the interested party.


A responsible breeder is available to the new owners for the lifetime of the pup.  They will also, if for any reason the owner cannot keep the pup, take it back themselves and rehome it.  They don't want their pups to end up in human societies or abandoned.  They will also safeguard their pups, with the rare exception of a pup who has tremendous potential, by requiring them to be spayed/neutered. 


Personally I think anyone who is running their own business, be it a barber, an accountant, a car mechanic, or a dog breeder will have expenses that are necessary to supply the best they can to John Q. Public. If they don't, they won't be in business long.   They are also willing to accept responsibility for the quality of what they are providing to the public.  A responsible breeder will give guarantees with their pups. 

From what I have seen in the past few years a good majority of responsible breeders are also very involved in rescue in many different capacities.  This is because they have made a commitment to the breed of their choice and don't just view them as a source of income.

If someone is interested in getting a specific breed but doesn't want to spend the money to get one from a responsible breeder there are many available through rescues from young to older.  However, they will also be screened by the rescue group before they are able to get a dog from them.  Healthwise & temperment wise I think they have as good a chance of finding a furpal through a rescue at a lower cost if cost is the issue.

Personally if the day comes that I want to have another standard poodle I will definitely look for a responsible breeder.  Yes, it may cost me more in $$$ but in the long run it could save me alot more in money, heartache and headache.



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Denise a/ka Poodlesmom


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I do breed and sell puppies.
http://www.solidimagelabs.com

You are welcome here, Skellington...

Nothing changes my ethics, or my opinions...so I am happy to exchange them with others.
I learn a lot from people that breed dogs. My methods are improved by implementing things that work for other people, consistantly. Vets seem undereducated, in general, to me.

Nice post, Denise.

-- Edited by Kittys Mom at 06:42, 2006-03-21

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Thanks Kitty!

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Denise a/ka Poodlesmom


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Kitty you have pretty dogs. I think thats the first time I have ever seen your site.

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Thank-you, Rebel.
I try to make them pretty.


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I agree Skellington..........

Kitty,
Your dogs have really nice heads, they are not so long and narrow as many labs I have seen, or at least they do not appear that way......do they have English Lab in the blood? I like the stockier head and body.

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English is a misnomer often applied to American show dogs.
I do not avoid show dogs entirely, but am unimpressed with the bulk of them.
I prefer a classic, healthy, and functional structure.
The dog should be able to dive into a river after a pissed off, wounded goose, and subdue it, and return to the boat, with the goose still eatable.
I pay a lot of attention to certification and general clean elegance in the bloodline.

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Kitty--


Your dogs are beautiful--solid but not heavy.  It's so nice to see yellows with good pigment.  Most of the yellows that come into the kennel where I work are dudleys.



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That's 'cause the do-dos put chocolate dogs, or too many yellows in their lines.
You ALWAYS breed back to black.

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Kitty, I have always thought your labs are awesome looking. There are too many around here that have been way overbred. Drives me crazy when you drive around and all you see in peoples back yards are labs.

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Kitty says thank-you...


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A lot of times breeding is for a great reason.  Take the Shiba's for instance.  They were almost extinct but due to careful breeding programs, they are making a good comeback.  I believe i read that there were originally 7 different Japanese breeds and only 4 are left, the other 3 are extinct. 

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